There actually are gay and lesbian characters in Star Wars. Even in the original BioWare Star Wars game. Juhani, a companion character in the first Star Wars game, is a lesbian. Her romance was cut (poorly) due to various factors (some say LA pulling it, some say time and content), but the poor removal of it made it accessible by both male and female PCs. Seeing bits and pieces of the romance bits leftover.

In one of the official Star Wars books, a Mandalorian commando Goran Beviin is openly gay with his long-term relationship lover Medrit. They even are married. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia also notes this.

Those are just a few examples. The material of Star Wars IS dense and open enough to include gays and lesbians, but omitting them in the game itself, and otherwise making it a very heteronormative affair (since flirting/persuasion/dialogue options for more social classes like the Imperial Agent and Smuggler are only opposite-sex driven due to this), it just makes for a less enriching and engrossing and representative universe. More than just books and single player games, this MMO marketed at everyone on the force of 'making your own personal story and character,' where your choices matter and you have true impact on the world and an evolving story, doesn't seem that inclusive by excluding options that are part of some of our stories. It'd be as poor as if they did not include the option to be asian or black or female in the game.

Since Bioware has in the past included same gender romance options, I find it odd and disappointing that they would not include it in the SW:TOR title. However, boycotting this game may not be the slap in the face that Bioware/Lucas Arts needs since you can provide no feedback on your order cancellation. However once you have a subscription and cancel, you will undoubtedly be asked why you are canceling, as with many MMOs.

I personally will take this approach. Based on the official forum post and polls the majority if the community has still voted for Same Gender / Bi romance Arcs if you include the same gender and all gender story arcs votes.

We shall have to wait and see.

A MMO with story is something different than a film or a TV series. I write a book or a TV episiode, I as author just follow my creativity. I do not have to depict all sort of races or sexual orientations.

A MMO based on story and a RPG heavily focussed on romance stories, where players want to Roleplay THEIR character is something ENTIRELY different, and consequently there are very different measures then with a movie or what.


"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes?
Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions;
fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons,
subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is?
If you prick us do we not bleed?
If you tickle us do we not laugh?
If you poison us do we not die?
And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?"

Elikal, I can understand your anger and frustration with TOR and Bioware, but I'm afraid your pointing the finger at the wrong people. As has been stated a few times, Bioware does over all have a good track record on include gay romances in their games and have a general pro-gay stance. They even did a poll to see if people would like their to same gender romances and 15% over all wanted them even more wanted their to be both same gender and opposite gender romance options.

From what I know gay characters are missing from Star Wars just as much as they are in Star Trek. There's no gay characters in any of the films and I've never seen one in any of their other games. (I don't claim to be a large fan of the series, so I may be missing something.)

This sounds to be more of a problem with the franchise than it is with the game manufacturer. I wouldn't be surprised if this was decided by the franchise holders and not by Bioware and in that case, boycotting the game would have little effect. If you're wanting to make your stand against not including same gender romances, you should instead boycott the entire IP.

I wrote this in my journal.
===================================

Recently Bioware said that in Star Wars The Old Republic will be no same gender romance arcs. While it has caused the expected heated debates, they know they will get through with it. Because they can do it with us.

In the Melian Dialogue of Thukydides history of the Greek War, when Athens wanted to raid the independent, small nation of Melos, they said: the strong do as they please and the weak have to suffer it. Apparently 2500 years later humanity hasn’t changed. Those who have no lobby are victim of prejudice and must suffer dishonouring their integrity.

Many gay fellow gamers told me, but SWTOR is such a great game, and a boycott would not change anything. And even more say, it is just a game, what does it matter?

Let me say to this a few things. I understand, a boycott likely would not change a thing. Too powerful and influential are those who hate us, those to whom our very existence is unbearable and who clearly would want to see or tolerate our destruction. It is true, the chances we can effect this are minimal. But for me, it is a question of moral integrity to stand for what I believe in. Either I believe in equality and respect and stand for it, or I accept and stay silent when the honour of others is trampled. There is no middle ground in questions like this. Alas, it is a very common thing in humanity, that when a minority is dishonoured, silenced and mistreated, the majority-society shrugs and says, what do I care. I am not black or gay or Jewish. And so injustice prevails.

Since WHEN is the argument, it doesn’t change a thing of any validity??? If you know a product is made with children work, you STOP buying it. Period. You don’t claim, hey but it won’t change a thing, or others do it too. No, you boycott products made by children, because IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! You do not bargain with companies who neglect some peoples integrity. End of story.

Others say it is just a game. To them I say: in matters of honour, respect and racism, there ARE no small matters! Imagine for a second Bioware would have announced, it had no black people in them. It would cause a major uprising. But since it is “just some gays” many shrug it off or even applaud it. Not so long ago, black people in America were forced to stay in certain spaces in a bus, and Jews in Germany were forced to wear a David Star. A small matter, people said back them. What do you fight against such small matter, they said. If a black person is forced to sit in a separated place, they said, it is because we do not wish to see black people close to us. This is no different. People don’t want to see gay people. They want them away, invisible, not exist. In a story focussed game, where romance stories are an integral part as in Bioware RPGs, the absence of gay & lesbian romance stories is not a small thing, it is a BIG statement, one that will have great influence.

Entertainment industry has a much greater influence than people admit or want to accept. When comic reading youths read about Gay Superheroes like Wiccan and Hulkling from Marvel, or see gay people in TV shows like Glee, it has a considerable influence to create tolerance and acceptance. It is a great thing. And the same is the message to exclude it. Such messages are of the greatest importance, for, to paraphrase Kreia, the world is moved from such small angles, through such small matters. In 2011, when so many games, TV shows, comics asf of the entire Entertainment industry have no issues to show gay people, this is a ultra conservative signal and something not to understand. A gay romance is not dirtier than a straight romance. Either love is sacred or love is dirty, and I vehemently deny that gay love is dirty when straight love isn’t. THAT is the signal such a decision shows. And that is why it is unacceptable to support Bioware with ANY game it further releases.

You can tell me a thousand times about how TOR is a product to be sold. I think that is bollocks. The gay superheroes never made people buy less Marvel comics. Sims sold record breaking despite even having gay sex and gay marriage! Fable, Dragon Age and other games who had gay romance and gay sex also sold well and were very popular. But this means to give in to those with hate, despise and prejudice. In terms of respect, dignity and equal rights is no small matter, no compromise. Just imagine for a moment, Bioware would have excluded black people. But gay people are fewer and they know they can do it with us, because too few will have solidarity. They know they will get through with it.

Adorno once said, the power of good is not that it triumphs over evil, but that we can say, despite all you did to annihilate us, we are still here. This is a day that is very unfortunate and tragic. A great wrong was done. But I know how it goes. “I am not gay, why should I care.” If I were not a spiritual person who had decided long ago that the human world is a place were darkness, chaos and selfishness reign and there is no hope in this world, I probably would have gone mad long ago. So I just see again what I already learned the hard way. That respect, decency and virtue are rare.

Quote by SorenStarkiller

Would you stop playing Zelda just because you rescue a princess and not a prince...even though the elf man is clearly gay? No.

Whaaaat?!? Xandir is gay???

Oh yeah, we pre-orderers in KoS are out there - lets hope for an invite :-)

Keeping all fingers and toes crossed :lol:

Quote by Jared

So they're inviting entire guilds into the beta. Was just wondering if our had got an invite?

Nope, nothing yet. I'm very hopeful as well. It'd be great if we could get some people in there and start learning the game!

I'm pretty sure that to qualify for the guild beta program, you only have to have 10 members in your guild; it doesn't matter if they pre-ordered or not. For the guild to be imported into the game at launch, we have to have 4 members that have pre-ordered and I'm fairly certain we have that.

Quote by Halish

Quote by Elikal

It cuts my heart, because I loved SWTOR and Bioware games: but my decision is clear. I cancel my preorder, boycott the game and every Bioware game.

You may be attacking the wrong people there. Bioware as a company have always been quite accommodating and are planning to include such things in Mass Effect 3 which they are currently working on. I find it hard to believe they choose to cut it from this game and not the others.

It's much more likely it came from over their heads.

But yeah it does really suck but I don't know what we can do. I always believe in the ability to vote with your wallet (which is why I don't believe in life time subscriptions, you lose your power) but honestly the amount of units already sold for SWTOR, I can't see it making much difference.

We really would be cutting of our noses to spite our face but if you believe that strongly then you absolutely have the right to show your dissatisfaction and walk away. I don't think anybody can blame you for that.

We are always pressed and we retreat. They know they get through with it. It may not make a difference. But if even WE don't stand for our dignity, we truly do not deserve it! And if you think those are harsh words, I am sorry, but that is how I feel.

I have let myself beat up for the right to be gay and out, and I am NOT going to stand down when I am considerably LESS threatened and the same our dignity is again at stake.

Quote by Elikal

It cuts my heart, because I loved SWTOR and Bioware games: but my decision is clear. I cancel my preorder, boycott the game and every Bioware game.

You may be attacking the wrong people there. Bioware as a company have always been quite accommodating and are planning to include such things in Mass Effect 3 which they are currently working on. I find it hard to believe they choose to cut it from this game and not the others.

It's much more likely it came from over their heads.

But yeah it does really suck but I don't know what we can do. I always believe in the ability to vote with your wallet (which is why I don't believe in life time subscriptions, you lose your power) but honestly the amount of units already sold for SWTOR, I can't see it making much difference.

We really would be cutting of our noses to spite our face but if you believe that strongly then you absolutely have the right to show your dissatisfaction and walk away. I don't think anybody can blame you for that.

I don't undertand why you make it SO EASY to trample on our dignity! It is NOT ok and it is OK a small issue!

SWTOR is about story to a major part. Romance is a big plot of every human story, so excluding us, especially when Bioware had so good experiences with DA gay romances, is nothing but a trampling on our dignity and honor and I will not take it! How much more must happen that we say ENOUGH?

It cuts my heart, because I loved SWTOR and Bioware games: but my decision is clear. I cancel my preorder, boycott the game and every Bioware game.

Hello :)

This video was posted a couple of days ago and we already have a thread discussing it over in the Public Lounge.

Check it out

Yes but now it is confirmed there are no gay/lesbian romance stories. And I would like to know how we as a guild react to this.

My opinion is to start a boycott.

The topic linked to the one down below got about 40 pages in the last week or so, its about the poll where most did not have a problem with sgra.

Still planned, but Head Guy says they are only allowing one guild per person, at this time.

On Gamescon in a new interview from August 19th 2011, a Bioware dev confirmed there are NO same gender romance arcs in SWTOR.

See Video here:
&feature=player_embedded

Question after 2:45 Min.


Guys, I am really angry and unsettled by this. Personally I am strongly inclined to cancel my preorder and boycott SWTOR, as much as it hurts me. But I wanted to hear your statements about this, what we shall do?

Please all look into this quickly.

So they're inviting entire guilds into the beta. Was just wondering if our had got an invite?

It looks like the Lords of Stonewall has still not been created on the official TOR site. Is this still planned? It would be great to group with the fleet in both factions of TOR.

I have pre-Ordered and will be in early access.

I'm very excited about the game as well. Funny, I'm going to start out as a Smuggler (not sure on the specialization yet) for most of the same reasons you have noted. Come on who doesn't like the fastest ship in the galaxy and one that can hide many secrets. :)

Thou a Trooper is really looking appealing. Thankfully we have a couple of months to figure things out.

I will eventually play a jedi to see the story lines for those guys as well.

Love huttball! That looks like a hoot and a howler.