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AdamTM

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 22 2012

Quote by INVAD3R J

I'm a bit confused on how we go about buying fleet ships. So even if we have the fleet credits and bought the required ship modules and have the tactical tier completed for the base we still can't buy them until we get an additional fleet starbase mission to complete?

The ships are locked into shipyard tiers.

So right now we have Shipyard tier 1, so you can only buy the ships available for Tier 1.

Additionally not all ships require fleet ship modules so be careful what you buy them for.

AFAIK, unless you are a collector, its not worth investing into the ships as equivalent versions are available through the Z-store without the need for FC or Provisioning cap.

This is especially true for escorts because the fleet versions are flat out worse than what you can get from Z-store or via Dilithium and don't come with the ship-modules that give you the cool special abilities. (Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier doesn't have the torpedo AOE skill, Z-store version does)

Also be aware that there are only a limited amount of Provisions for the ships, i.e. if you buy the last one nobody else will be able to purchase them for a time (?)

Be careful with pruchasing things from the fleet until we the admins come up with some sort of system how to manage provisions for individuals.

here is a list of which ships become available at which tier: http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_starbase">http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_starbase

INVAD3RJ

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 22 2012

Okie I guess that makes sense. So since all I want is a Tier 1 Olympic has anyone talked about how we go about selecting gets to provision a ship? Lottery? Seniority?

Toddoverton

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 22 2012

Quote by AdamTM

Looking at the leaderboard there is a certain danger that we have a runaway-FC problem and its systemic from my analysis.

...

We can't have a situation where ~80% of the fleet is locked out from the progression.
The system is designed in such a way that it doesn't scale well for large fleets like ours and the game doesn't give us the tools to manage the progression sensibly.

If PW/C isn't able or willing to fix these problems (soonish) we will need some internal rules for project-contributions as well as Provisioning. Lest people down the ladder become increasingly frustrated and just stop contributing to the fleet in any way.

It will be a bitch for the admins to keep track of all this but thats the only way to do it right now.

This is not just us, there are other fleets with similar problems

I personally don't see this as being a big problem in the medium- to long-term.

First, since FC can only be spent on a few things, people are really only incentivized to get as much FC as they need for the things they want to purchase. At a certain point, it will become self-limiting, since most people won't want to put in more than they will get out, and because people will not want to be known as "the project hog" who is shutting everyone else out. You can solve this problem by simply asking people to stop contributing if they have a positive FC balance that they aren't immediately using so that others can catch up.

Second, the game developers are working from the assumption that we are not comnplete strangers to one another who never communicate or work collaboratively. They instead assume that we do. Which is true. That is as it should be. I think we should abandon any idea that the game developers will add tools or tricks to the game that will solve the problem you describe. We are on our own on this one.

Third, I think that the fleet ships and other fleet provisions are not intended to be nor should be available to just anyone and everyone. Why should those who work most diligently and contribute the most get the most out of it, including some rewards that just aren't available to those who don't? Those who put real money into the game have things that the rest of us don't. Those who grind dilithium like maniacs have things that the rest of us don't. Why should this be different?

The only alternaive, which you are going to hate, is to have a fleet rule (as some fleets do) that establishes minimum (and maximum) daily contributions for all fleet members. That way, everyone contributes their quota and no more, everyone stays about equal in terms of FCs, and the fleet projects still move forward. That is not my preferred solution. I am willing to live with a certain inequality of outcomes which is the natural and unavoidable result of leaving people free to contribute as much or as little as they like, and allow social pressures to smooth out the rough edges. You will find that it is that or a quota system.

I would also point out that the limitations we are talking about here will slow down the progress of starbase construction and upgrading. Everyone seems really happy with how fast we have progressed, exactly because the projects fill up so fast and the timer starts ticking. That will suffer if we have a system where the last 2000 dilithium on a project is reserved for only me to fill but I don't log on for two days because I had the flu. Are we willing to wait on people to make their reserved contributions, when the cost of waiting is to lengthen the time it takes to get to Tier V? I think that would be an... unpopular... result of the kind of solution that was described in the post you quoted.

That's my observation.

Unknown Person liked this

Treksplorer

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 22 2012

Quote by INVAD3R J

I'm a bit confused on how we go about buying fleet ships. So even if we have the fleet credits and bought the required ship modules and have the tactical tier completed for the base we still can't buy them until we get an additional fleet starbase mission to complete?

The way I understand it, once you have the shipyard, you then need to complete projects to make the ships themselves. The projects only create a certain number of ships. So the project may only make 5 available ships to buy, for example. And the ships would only be tier 1 I believe, I.E. you'd be able to buy a tier 5 version of the Sabre, Constitution, or Nova.

INVAD3RJ

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 22 2012

I'm a bit confused on how we go about buying fleet ships. So even if we have the fleet credits and bought the required ship modules and have the tactical tier completed for the base we still can't buy them until we get an additional fleet starbase mission to complete?

AdamTM

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 22 2012

Looking at the leaderboard there is a certain danger that we have a runaway-FC problem and its systemic from my analysis.

I made quite a lengthy post on the STO forums about it:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=322211">http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=322211

Repost in full:

While I enjoy the new Fleet Advancement System as well as the Starbases, there are a few things that present a problem as is.

Fleetcredits are almost impossible to earn in large, active Fleets and its not that people don't have the time or the dedication to donate resources to projects.

The problem is that a few players completely dominate the donation process. Every time there is a new upgrade/project, the requirements are immediately filled out by a few top-tier people in a fleet (they apparently don't sleep).

We have 3 people that have +300k FC in our fleet, 12 have above 100k, 40 have 20-50k and it quickly goes downward from there (470 fleet members total, most of them active). I'm sure others would love to donate more resources to the projects to earn some FC but they are immediately filled out when they get posted.
In short, ~10% of our fleet is earning ~90% of the FC.
This of course is not their fault, the system allows for it after all.

This will in the future create an immense imbalance where a few Fleeties will hoard massive amounts of FC and others, while theoretically being able to donate and add to the progression, will be left with nothing or close to nothing.

I could donate around 6k Dillithium every day, but i cant because the second the new upgrade project went up, all 60k D was filled up, like in a second.
Even the special projects ever 30mins are filled up in no time.

Fleet Marks get filled up horrifyingly quickly too.

Right now I have ~15k FC and I would have more resources to donate, gladly if I got the chance. I earned my 15k during the past week, at this rate, I will be able to afford the first fleet-ship in oh about...20 weeks, while the top 3 already could buy ships right now.

This system seems like it doesn't reward the dedication of the player to the fleet or the game but rather his dedication to not sleep and click a button faster than others.

Mind you I'm not complaining about grind, grind i can deal with.

The problem is that we don't have any other way to generate FC than the Starbase projects, and additionally the system serves a "first come first serve" mentality.

Proposed Solutions:

1. A total FC cap that can be earned per character per project, based on the amount of fleet-members. This would prevent 10 people to fund the whole Starbase on their own and earning massive amounts of FC starving other members.

2. Introduce non-project dailies to earn FC "on the side" for those that don't make it to donate to the Starbase projects. (not everyone can be online when a new project goes up, it quickly becomes an exercise in futility)

2.1 A way would be to reward a small amount of FC directly from Starbase Defense missions, i.e. reduce the amount of Fleet Marks rewarded by maybe 1/5th and add that value as FC. Right now, Fleet Marks are quickly becoming dead weight on my account, i got like 50 of them and waiting for an opportunity to add them to the projects.

2.2 Convert the Starbase daily mission from the officer of the watch to FC directly.

2.3 Give a way to directly turn in FM for FC to an NPC.

Right now the system is a curse for anyone in a large well-organized fleet.
I'm pretty sure its not a problem for smaller fleets because the split would be smaller, but for fleets like mine? Over half the people can't earn any FC.

In the end this is a simple currency conversion issue.

Unlike the Dilithium refining-cap this one is shared by the whole fleet, that creates the problem of imbalance inside the fleet.

If this isn't going to get fixed, we have already discussed to game the system by splitting the fleet into smaller 5-man parts to earn FC equally, and then coming back to the main Fleet to take advantage of the upgraded higher-tier Starbase facilities.

Its bothersome but it will work, I just don't see why it has to be necessary to "cheat" on this if we could fix the current system and make it more equal and less opportunistic.

Thanks for reading.

We can't have a situation where ~80% of the fleet is locked out from the progression.
The system is designed in such a way that it doesn't scale well for large fleets like ours and the game doesn't give us the tools to manage the progression sensibly.

If PW/C isn't able or willing to fix these problems (soonish) we will need some internal rules for project-contributions as well as Provisioning. Lest people down the ladder become increasingly frustrated and just stop contributing to the fleet in any way.

It will be a bitch for the admins to keep track of all this but thats the only way to do it right now.

This is not just us, there are other fleets with similar problems:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=322211

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=322211

Bren

Re: Ship Names

July 22 2012

For my main toon, Ohmsford (Engineering), I mainly use Norse mythology-related names, like the USS Midgard, USS Jotunheim or the USS Laufeyson, which is my current ship.

For my Science alt, Lindstrom, I use Roman/Latin and astronomy related names, like USS Cybele, USS Strata, USS Moonraker, though it's a bit more broad.

My Tactical alt, Teleras (he's Andorian), has ships named after Egyptian and Mayan/Aztec mythology, eg. USS Amun-Ra, USS Quetzalcoatl.

My Klingon just has random Klingon-sounding ship names. :P And for shuttles, I name them after celebs, usually, such as the USS Kylie Minogue, USS Tori Amos or USS Hiddlesworth. (That last one is a mix of Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston, heh.)

Bren

Re: Role-Play Reboot!

July 22 2012

Before S6, I was playing around in the Foundry trying to set up an interior of a ship along with some maps that could be used for RP, but unfortunately Foundry is down at the moment, so I haven't had a chance to dabble further with that.

I've been active in email RPs (or sims, as we call them) for about 10 years and have run a few of them, so I have some experience in storytelling and setting in that regard.

Getorix's roster layout is what I'm used to as well, so I think that would work great. DoctorDisaster's are also very valid and are good to think about before we decide what to do.

Perhaps, instead of basing it on a ship exclusively, we could base it off Stonewall Starbase and have a ship attached to it that isn't necessarily under the command of a specific person but is commanded as mission require it. Somewhat like the Defiant for DS9. That way if we choose a captain for the RP who isn't available for a session, someone else can easily run the mission. Also, since RP is mostly ground map based (if we're playing as a crew), it gives us greater scope.

The key, I've found, is to be flexible, so that if someone can't be part of the session or new people join, they can easily be fitted into the RP. New people or rotating crew can just come from the base. It should be more important to have fun than to keep everything super strictly in fitting with canon or storylines, in my opinion. We all have different playing styles, after all.

As for characters, it's probably best to stick to your toon's career division if they're an officer, ie. Science = Science/Medical Department, Tactical = Security/Tactical Department, Engineer = Operations/Engineer Department. Civilian positions won't matter as much, obviously. :)

I'd suggest using the Fleet uniform as our RP uniform, but if we choose another one, the extra uniform slot - or "off duty" slot - could be used for that. Since you can basically completely redesign your character in it, it's rather useful. Although, if we want to use off-duty outfits in the RP as well, that might not work. :)

My main character is a Human Male Engineer and my two alts are a Human Female Scientist and an Andorian Male Tactician. So basically I can fit in anywhere, really.

Unknown Person

Re: Star Trek: The Journey

July 22 2012

[=]

Episode 676 - Enterprise - "Future Tense" - 02/19/2003

http://www.allstepisodes.com/megvid.php?n=5216

Enterprise finds a derelict ship only to be attacked by Suliban and Tholian ships.

Enjoy!

SamRonin

Re: Getting to know you.

July 21 2012

Hi. I am Sam. A 32 year old guy from the South West UK.
I am a big and broad Bear like guy.

I work full time in a hotel. This means that my actual playtime can be rather limited at best.

I am single and have been for quite a long time. See above for one of the key reasons. lol. Random rotas and late shifts seem great for killing romance.

I have loved Trek since I was a kid. Seeing the Animated and ToS stuff when very young. Gawd how the Horta scared me as a kid. And still remember the excitement when Next Gen was announced and watched it as much as possible.

I love all kinds of Sci Fi and not just televisual or movie related. My shelves bow under the numbers of books I have from many different authors. Although mostly from the British New Wave.

I am also a big fan of animals etc and in STO will usually be a Caitian or Ferasan. I guess you could liken it to the Furry Fandom. But I am just me and like my big anthropomorphic felines.

In game I tend towards general fun and play around grinding up chars and playing good Episodes etc. Not really done much EndGame stuff yet as I usually have another alt and idea for how I want them to look or play. I will look to do more as and when I get my Stonewall chars to 45+ and can set up some useful ships.

UnlimitedFaith

Re: no more server Eternal Grove

July 21 2012

Actually, oddly enough, it cleared up a little and I got in when I tried later :D yay!

Nova

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 21 2012

Quote by Toddoverton

Quote by Alan

Excellent question...and one that needs to be addressed BEFORE the time comes.

I expect that is what the leaderboard is for. It provides a metric for assigning priority, lets each player know where they stand, and gives each player a clear path to improve their position if it is important to them to do so.

Memo to self: start poopsocking the clocks on the projects so that I can log on when they complete and a new one is selected and insta-fills. Seriously, every time I log on, all of the projects are already in progress and already filled to the gills with every asset they need. I'd contribute more if it were actually possible to do so.

Toddoverton

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 21 2012

Quote by Alan

Excellent question...and one that needs to be addressed BEFORE the time comes.

I expect that is what the leaderboard is for. It provides a metric for assigning priority, lets each player know where they stand, and gives each player a clear path to improve their position if it is important to them to do so.

Adinarous

Re: A Stonewall Guide to Fleet Starbases

July 21 2012

I'm a little confused in some areas regarding the fleet projects, as well as some other things. Yesterday morning, the countdown to starbase shipyard 1 and a couple other things was imminent, but as soon as it completed we had to do another project that *actually* got us the upgrade. This is really counter-intuitive to me, and I'm thinking either the system is not working properly, but more likely, that I'm failing to understand it properly.

On the other hand, if the fleet has to make provisions for a limited number of purchasable items in the stores, then how are we going to figure out who's turn it is to purchase a ship? First come first serve?

I seem to be pretty unlucky at stuff like that, and I feel that it'd be a long time coming before I got a fleet-provisioned ship.

Ltervlet

Re: The most moving thing I've ever heard.

July 21 2012

Thanks for sharing, it was wonderful to listen to something so open about compassion, and tolerance for all. I've not actually listened to anything regarding Buddhism before so it was quite "enlightening" as they say. :)

kiddkasper

Re: Re: no more server Eternal Grove

July 21 2012

Quote by UnlimitedFaith

Crystal Desert is a full population server... you can't join it any more :(. What now? lol

I rolled on Tarnished Coast and was still able to get a guild invite and talk in guild chat.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

UnlimitedFaith

Re: no more server Eternal Grove

July 21 2012

Crystal Desert is a full population server... you can't join it any more :(. What now? lol

Lawlznobawlz

Re: no more server Eternal Grove

July 20 2012

Have been MIA for a bit, so i havent been on the forums for a while, whats going on with the servers?

bluegamers

Re: no more server Eternal Grove

July 20 2012

There is never really a right balance when it comes to servers that are not properly designated as "this server or that server."

Finding a central location for the LGBT guilds to meet will label things as whatever, we'll always share a server with some community. The important thing is selecting a server in general.

Anyway servers are currently active. as of 5 minutes ago.

Nova

Re: The most moving thing I've ever heard.

July 20 2012

I need this guy to live in the apartment next door.